Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire; the Holstein-Rathlou Affair

A dashing young count and his beautiful countess come through town and promise to teach you how to be as beautiful as they—for a fee, of course. Promises are made, money exchanges hands, and then the charming royals simply vanish! Was it a dream or were you duped? Come back with us to 1908 when Viggo met Nora and their cross-country crime spree began! 

This story is a continuation of Episode 5: The Tragic Tale of Kate Van Winkle. Nora Holstein-Rathlou first came to our attention in that story and we realized there was just so much more to tell!

Transcript

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What do beauty schools, jail cells, and Ellis Island have in common? Stay tuned to find out on this episode of Forgotten Felonies. Welcome back to Forgotten Felonies; I'm Monica and I'm Olivia, and this is where we take you back in time to rediscover the crimes of vintage villainy that time forgot. Today's story is an absolute rollercoaster ride that really began with our previous episode. If you haven't listened to the tragic tale of Kate Van Winkle, you ought to stop right now and go back to that one. You really need to hear that story to understand why we're talking about this one. Yeah, we'll be referring to Kate a few times, and it might not make sense if you haven't listened to that episode. I guess a brief recap might be in order. So basically, there was a woman named Kate who married a man named Dr. Collins. And this man, Dr. Collins, had previously been married to a woman named Nora. Nora had run off with a Danish count. We told Kate's story because Kate's new husband, Dr. Collins, wound up dead of a gunshot wound a few months later, and well, we don't know if it was murder or an accident But today's episode is all about the doctor's ex-wife, Nora, who became known as Countess Nora von Holstein-Rathlow, and her husband, who was known as Count Vigo von Holstein-Rathlow, and their many, many, many crimes. But before I tell you that story, I have to tell you this one. Once upon a time, it was August 21st of 1858, in a land far, far away. It was Schloss Laxenburg, a castle near Vienna, Austria. A handsome young prince was born. This tiny baby boy was Rudolf Franz Karl Josef, the Crown Prince of Austria. He was the third child born to Emperor Franz Josef I of Austria and his beautiful wife, Duchess Elizabeth of Bavaria. Being the only son, he was heir apparent to the imperial throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Because being the future emperor of the entire Austro-Hungarian Empire is a really big deal, Rudolf was sent away at the age of six to begin his training under the instruction and care of Leopold Gondrecourt. Now, I use the term care lightly because Leopold Gondrecourt was nothing close to caring. Oof, yeah, Gondrecourt was a staunch military commander and if you look him up, he had, I mean, a really great military career if that's what you're looking for. He was appointed as chief steward and tutor of this six-year-old Archduke Crown Prince. Gondrecourt was told to raise him to be a soldier So for this purpose, Gondrecourt used very harsh military methods such as water treatment, whatever that means, waking him with pistol shots, and this is in quotes, nocturnal exposure in the zoo. So was he living with animals, like sleeping with them? I don't know. Like, was he putting him out there like run from the lions? Like, I don't know. Like what was he doing? I don't know. And then like hours of exercise to discipline him. And he's six. Like, I mean, that's awful. So yeah, apparently a poor little Rudolph suffered horribly and though he was physically and emotionally abused from 1864 at the age of six until 1866 at the age of eight when one of Gondrecourt's subordinates contacted Rudolph's mother, Empress Elizabeth, to tell her about the negative effects that all of this was having on her son. Good for him. Yeah, he was like, I got to blow the whistle. So Empress Elizabeth actually gave an ultimatum to her husband, the emperor, and he wound up dismissing Gondrecourt. Now, sadly, poor eight-year-old Crown Prince Rudolph was irreparably traumatized now, not only by his time with Gondrecourt, which I mean, that was horrific, but also by that forced separation from his family at such a young age. Because, I mean, obviously, I mean, when you're six, imagine being plucked away from your family. Now you get to go train like military training at six. Now you get to go run from lions. I know, whatever that was. But yeah, also his big sister was his best friend. They were like, they were raised together. They were very close in age. And so he also had been taken from his big sister too, so it was just really, really traumatic. Anyway, so he goes back home and he's back, you know, in the castle near Vienna, and he had a much kinder tutor who got him interested in the natural sciences and things, you know, we're going back to normal. He started collecting rocks and minerals. And those rocks and minerals actually are today located at the University of Natural Resources and Life Sciences in Vienna, Austria, so that's kind of cool. In May of 1881, when Prince Rudolf was 22, he married a 17-year-old princess named Stephanie, so she was from Belgium. And they were very happy together at first, and a little over two years later, they had a little baby girl, Archduchess Elizabeth, so she was born. But by the time the baby was born, the couple had grown apart, so they were no longer, you know, getting along, they weren't really happy anymore. And once the baby was born, Prince Rudolf showed signs of mental instability. So now he was drinking really heavily, and he started having a lot of extramarital affairs. And that part of it wasn't entirely out of character because before he'd gotten married, he had actually been quite the promiscuous womanizer. You know, so he was sleeping with a lot of women beforehand. And you know, he showed a lot of signs of trouble with attachment and commitment, and a lot of that probably was caused by that childhood trauma. I mean, looking back through royalty, though, like British royalty, it's pretty common. Right, but also think about how they really didn't have a lot of attachment with their parents. True, true Yeah, I mean, put all that together. Yeah, so in 1886, when Rudolf was 28, he became very, very seriously ill. So he and his wife went to the island of Lacroma, which is located over by Croatia for treatment. And while they were on their way by boat, Princess Stephanie also became very seriously ill, and she was in horrible pain. They were both diagnosed with peritonitis, and the emperor, I'm not sure why, but he wanted to keep this diagnosis a secret. So I looked it up, like, what is peritonitis? Like, this had to have been horribly embarrassing. But it turns out it was just inflammation of the lining of the inner abdominal organs. And so I don't know why it needed to be kept secret. Like it doesn't seem embarrassing. Maybe because it was like, he's the crown prince. Yeah, people think he's sick. Maybe. Maybe back then they thought the cause of it was something embarrassing. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It could have been anything. But yeah, he just didn't want anybody to know. Well, it turns out it probably wasn't peritonitis after all. So they were both treated, and Stephanie was able to recover, but she was unable to have any children after that because it had destroyed her fallopian tubes. So she had most likely gotten gonorrhea instead. So it sounds like Rudolph had picked up an infection while he was being, you know, promiscuous, and he had given it to her. But Rudolph did not improve with treatment, and he actually got a lot worse. It's speculated that he had also contracted syphilis in addition to the gonorrhea. So to cope with the effects of his disease, he actually started taking large doses of morphine. Yeah, so mixing that with the alcohol, probably not the best. This incident with the illness happened in 1886, and also in that year, Rudolph had purchased a hunting lodge known as Meierling. And in late 1888, so two years after he had contracted the disease, the hunting 30-year-old Prince Rudolph met 17-year-old Baroness Marie von Witzera, and he began an affair with her. As one does. Yes. On January 30th of 1889, Crown Prince Rudolph and his 17-year-old lover were found dead in the lodge as a result of a joint suicide. They had shot themselves in their heads. Now being suicide, Rudolph could not have a church burial, so the emperor had him buried in the imperial crypt of the Capuchin Church in Vienna. So it wasn't a religious ceremony, but he was put in the imperial crypt at the Capuchin Church. Now the 17-year-old baroness's body, they had to smuggle that out of the hunting lodge in the middle of the night and then secretly bury it in the village cemetery. Yeah. Then the emperor had the Meierling hunting lodge where the suicides had happened. He had that actually converted into a convent for Carmelite nuns, and it was endowed a chantry so that daily prayers would eternally be said by the nuns for the repose of Rudolf's soul. So they're praying for his soul every day. I can't tell if his dad was like, oh, he went to hell, they need to pray for him. But I think it was to make up for the fact that he couldn't have the religious burial. He's like, well, I'll make up for it. They'll pray for him every day for the rest of forever. Yeah, it still goes. I don't know if they still say the prayers, but oh, if it's a convent, yeah, they do. Now something that's super fascinating, I thought this was really cool. The 17-year-old baroness, her private letters were discovered in a safe deposit box in an Austrian bank in 2015, so just 10 years ago. So who was paying for them all that time? Well, I think probably someone in the family had them because this was a super long time ago So I don't know if they were put in a safe deposit box, you know, back in 1889. You know, so someone probably had them and then at some point put them in there. So I don't know. But yeah, no one knew they were there apparently for a long time. And then just in 2015, it was discovered and like, oh, hey, look what I found. But yeah, so they found these letters that revealed that she was indeed preparing to commit suicide with him out of love. And so he after he died, it was officially declared that he had been in a state of quote mental unbalance. And you know, you can't convince me that those two traumatic years from the ages of six to eight with Leopold Gondrecourt did not play a part in his mental decline. Can't convince me the forensic psych over here. So you know, not going to convince me otherwise. So anyway, that is the sad, sad story of Crown Prince Rudolf Franz Karl Josef. So why are we talking about the Crown Prince of Austria? Well, because now we are turning our attention to two people who could not

tell the truth if their lives depended on it: 12:37

Vigo and Nora Holstein-Rathlow, if those are even their real names. No, I'm pretty sure those are their real names for the most part. The rest of it, though, oh my gosh, you guys strap in because it's going to be a wild ride So in our previous episode, when I was giving you a quick rundown of these two, I did mention they could have their own episode, right? Well, after we wrapped up that episode, I looked up a couple more things about Nora and Vigo and realized that there was actually so much more to this story. I absolutely cannot believe that this story hasn't been told. How is there not a movie about these people? They were like Bonnie and Clyde before Bonnie and Clyde. Honestly, I would not be surprised if they had heard stories about the Holstein-Rathlows and got some inspiration from them. Seriously. Now, Olivia, please tell us what you know about Nora Holstein-Rathlow. Of course, Nora Holstein-Rathlow was born on July 20th, 1883, as Leonora Lange in Avon, Iowa, to William Lange and Catherine Wheeler Lange. Nora was the youngest of eight children. They lived on a farm just a few miles outside of Des Moines, Iowa. She and her siblings spent their days playing on a farm with the cows, dogs, and sheep, like all the normal farm kids in the area. Sadly, Nora's mother died when she was just a year old. Her father then remarried when she was three, and two more siblings were born. Yeah, so by the time Nora was a teenager, she was a talented singer and actress. And I mean, really, you could say she was a great actress until the day she died. Don't spit out your drink, Olivia. That was a good joke. It was. I should have timed that better. She was taking that drink; she just about choked. But anyway, you'll see what I mean, listeners. You just stay tuned. All right. Anyway, Nora had joined the Castle Square Opera Company in her teens. Now, this was a touring opera company, which sounds really cool, but they had theaters in cities like Chicago and New York City, and Nora acted and sang, and her stage name was Goldie Lang. But she gave up her stage career in 1902, at the ripe old age of 17, when she met and married a very handsome 28-year-old doctor by the name of Roy Asbury Milton Collins, and their wedding took place in Nebraska. Now, Nora was a very jealous and possessive young wife. She objected to Dr. Collins treating female patients, for example. And for a while there, Dr. Collins worked at a drugstore, and she would call so often to find out if he was at the store, rather than making house calls to female patients, that the manager of the drugstore finally forbade her from calling the store phone at all. Good for him. Boundaries. I mean, that must have been some excessive phone calling. Nora also spent money like it grew on trees. She would have things charged to Dr. Collins' Accounts left and right, and he had no ability to pay for these things. She's just digging him a hole. By 1904, Nora and Dr. Collins had moved to Portland, Oregon. He initially got a job as a salesman in a retail store, and Nora would essentially stalk him at work to see how much time he was spending talking to female customers. If she thought he spent too much time making a sale to a female customer, she would publicly intervene, like interrupt the sale. Like, all right, you know, wrap it up, wrap it up, you know, just to get him to finish up the sale and move on. Why are you still talking? Man, that's my husband Buy it somewhere else. Yeah, just crazy. So, they had a baby boy, little Donald William Milton Collins. He was born in November of 1904, and they called him Billy for short. And Nora couldn't transfer even an ounce of her obsession to the baby at all. And sometimes she would go as many as three weeks without giving Billy a bath before Dr. Collins would have to tell her to do so. Nora just wasn't very good at being a wife or a mother. Well, in 1906, a 21-year-old blonde fellow from a royal family in Denmark arrived in the United States. His name was Count Vigo von Holstein-Rathlow. If you believe his story, he didn't like the life of nobility in Denmark, and he wanted to go to America where he could actually work for a living. So he made his way over to the United States. Olivia, could you tell us a bit about Vigo? I would love to. Vigo was born in 1885, so he was actually a couple years younger than Nora. He was the fifth of seven children born to Christian Frederick Emael Holstein-Rathlow and Sophie Dagmar Elizabeth Jericho over in Denmark. And by July of 1908, he found his way to Portland, Oregon. Now, I'm not sure how he stumbled upon Collins and Nora, but somehow he met the couple, and he told them that he had no money and no place to stay Not to worry, he said, because he received a monthly allowance of $1, 000 from his father, Count Emael von Holstein-Rathlow, back in Denmark, and the allowance would be arriving any day now. Dr. Collins was a kind and caring man, so he told him, you can stay with us until your money arrives. Well, the money didn't arrive that July, and by August, it still hadn't arrived. And one day, Vigo just left. And you know who else left? No, who? Nora. Nora Collins. Yeah, Nora Collins ran off with Vigo in August of 1908 and never looked back. So now Dr. Collins is left all alone with all of his debt, his home to take care of, and his three-year-old son. Billy was just a couple months away from his fourth birthday, but man, what a pickle. So he had to get that figured out, and he decided he was just going to file for a divorce. And, you know, things like this aren't instant. He had to go through the process. Well, Nora and Vigo decided they were soulmates, and they wanted to go to Denmark to get permission from Vigo's father, Count Emil von Holstein-Rathlow, to get married. They made their way to the east coast and somehow got onto a ship to sail to Denmark. I don't know how or if they paid for it, but they made it to Denmark When they arrived, Vigo's father said he would absolutely not accept this marriage and he would not allow them into the home. Now, I don't know if this means he wouldn't let them come into the house or if it means he wouldn't accept them into the family, but he made it clear that this marriage was not condoned and he sent them packing. Now, according to an article in the New York Sun, the count thought that just a glimpse of the young woman would be enough to win his father over, but his father was immovable. The old count, his father, has cut off the baron with a crown worth 26. 8 cents, whereby he is a trifle richer than a disinherited Briton with his shilling worth 24. 3 cents. The baron says he is going to work. The baroness may sing, and sing she does. Yeah, so Vigo was not deterred, and he still wanted to marry his beautiful American gal. So on September 15th of 1908, Dr. Collins filed the paperwork for the divorce, but you know, it's not final yet. So a court date was set. The love struck couple left Denmark and they headed to London, if you believe their story, and found an American pastor there who married them in late September. From there, they made their way to the United States, ultimately ending up in St. Louis, Missouri, where they had another wedding around October 22nd On October 30th, Dr. Collins was able to finalize his divorce on the grounds of cruelty in Portland. Wait, so she married Vigo before she was even divorced? Yes, twice. At that divorce hearing on October 30th, they brought up her recent wedding, actually, because it had made big news. And Dr. Collins said that he knew nothing about her being married to the count already. So they did open an investigation into her for bigamy, but nothing ever came of it. And they soon had bigger issues, much bigger. Oh, pray tell. Oh yeah, they were married on October 22nd in St. Louis, right? Well, they sure had a funny way to celebrate their honeymoon. On Thursday, November 5th, Mrs. Nora Rathlow made her way to the Planters Hotel dining room and sat down alone to have a drink. A traveling salesman named James Morgan was in St. Louis from Chicago. He was staying at the Planters Hotel, and he'd stopped in for a drink himself. He saw the pretty young woman all alone. She wasn't wearing a hat or wraps, as he called it, so like a sweater, on that cold November afternoon, and he assumed that she must also have been a guest at the Planters Hotel. There was a wink and a smile exchanged, and then the two decided that they should go see some sights together. So they went to a restaurant downtown for more drinks. And then Nora Holstein Rathlow invited James Morgan back to her room at the Rozier Hotel to see her very interesting collection of antiques and curios. He happily accepted the invitation back to her room, hoping it would be a little more than a trip to see some. Shortly after getting into the room, who should appear but the Count. His eyes were blazing and his voice was trembling. He had an awe-inspiring revolver and he muttered aloud, Ha! Ha! James Morgan immediately sprang up and he wrested the revolver from the Count's hand. He calmly said to the Count, Now let's sit down and talk this over. In the meantime, the Countess was so frightened that she had grabbed James Morgan's coat and had run into a closet in her confusion. And she just so happened to reach into the pocket and take out $115. Oh, no. I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm so confused. Now James Morgan was really worried that if he were to attempt to leave, he would be accused of burglary somehow. So he wound up staying in the room the whole night, holding the gun. And in the morning, when he felt safe enough to leave, he went straight to the police. And this was the first time that the Rathlos were arrested as a married couple I did see that the revolver was actually like super old and unloaded. Yeah. Well, he didn't think to check it. It said, you know, he just, I mean, he was scared, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But I'm just saying, what was the count planning on doing? Like just scaring the guy out of there? Because that didn't go as planned. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think just scaring him to hand over his money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the countess returned the $115, and the couple agreed to leave St. Louis. Now in exchange, James Morgan dropped the charges, so they were able to buy train tickets from St. Louis, and they left for Des Moines, Iowa the next morning. Chief Smith of St. Louis said that he actually wanted to prosecute the Rathlos, but James Morgan had to leave. I mean, he's a traveling salesman. He doesn't live there. He's got a job. He's got to go. So he wasn't able to stay for a trial. So Chief Smith put their pictures in the rogues gallery and let them go. So Olivia, what is a rogues gallery? Rogues gallery is like the precursor to mugshots. Pretty much. It was like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, basically, it was their mugshots, but it was like all, like their collection of mugshots. Yeah. Yeah. So it's pretty cool. They should. Yeah. It was also the precursor though. I don't know. I was reading up on it earlier, and they were like, this is the precursor. Yeah, I really want to find their pictures. I want to find them so bad. They have to exist somewhere, but yeah. So he put their pictures in the rogues gallery, and he let them go. Now, the count did admit that he had made his wife go to the planters hotel for her lunch that day and that he had held onto her hat and her wraps so that she would look like she actually was staying at the hotel as a guest because he wanted her to attract someone to her table. So, you know, so they had set it up from the jump, like it was a total setup. So yeah, that was November of 1908. And we know that they left St. Louis to go to Des Moines, Iowa. Well, Colonel Johnston in St. Louis knew where they were headed, and he didn't trust them. So, he sent a picture of them to Des Moines. And as soon as they arrived, they were arrested. Now, of course, there were no charges against them in Des Moines because they had just arrived. So, they were let go and forced to leave town. Now, after that, they went back to Denmark, and Vigo's dad had a change of heart supposedly, but that comes into question. I don't know. Now, Vigo and his new bride spent several months over in Denmark, and then they came back to the U. S. In the summer of 1909, to have a visit with Nora's son, little Billy, in Portland. And then the story of Kate happens. Yes. Well, so they arrived in New York in June of 1909, and they were promptly arrested. This time it was not for no reason. So they met a man who had quite a bit of cash, and they told him a very familiar story. Count Vigo said that he was going to be receiving his allowance of $1, 000 within the hour, but he needed $500 right now. He said he would be able to pay this man back within the hour. Well, unfortunately, the man believed them and gave them the cash, and when he didn't get his money back within the hour, he called the police. So the couple were arrested and they did give back his money, and they were let go yet again. And again, their pictures were placed in the Rogues Gallery in New York City. And then from there, they made their way west to Portland, Oregon. So if you listened to the previous episode, you know that Nora went to see her ex-husband, Dr. Collins, and he wasn't too excited to let Nora visit with Billy. It had been several months, and Billy was so young that he didn't actually even remember Nora. Dr. Collins also didn't tell her right away that he had gotten remarried, and that whole story is a crazy one, definitely worth a listen Now Nora and Vigo got themselves an apartment at 326 10th Street. They told the landlord that Vigo gets a monthly allowance of $1, 000 and it would be coming, you know, in a couple weeks. So they would pay for the apartment when it got there. They said the same thing to the grocery store and the laundromat and even the furniture store where they got some really expensive, really nice mahogany furniture. Mahogany! Oh yeah, super fancy. On July 23rd of 1909, Nora and the Count were able to go pick up little Billy for an overnight stay. And then on July 24th, the following morning, Dr. Collins was shot dead. Now, Nora and Vigo had little Billy Collins full-time from that point on, like forever. And they also had these mounting bills. So, on August 2nd of 1909, just a few weeks after Dr. Collins died, the little family of three simply vanished. That makes his death so suspicious. So suspicious, but we know the story, we do know the story, and it it wasn't Nora. Surprise. It wasn't Nora or Vigo. Yeah. All right. So a story was published in the Oregonian on Wednesday, August 4th, with the headline 'Rathlow's Leave Creditors Mourn Many Bills Left Unpaid' and the byline reads 'Furniture Firm, Landlord and others who waited in vain for a check from Denmark are still waiting.' At the end of this article, it actually says, quote, 'No effort will be made on the part of the authorities to locate them as no one cares to make complaint to the police.' The furniture company went and collected the furniture, but the grocery folks were out all of that food and the landlord was out all the rent money. So I think they should have pressed charges, 100%. Yeah, whatever. All right. So apparently they made their way to Des Moines, Iowa next, and by the fall of 1910, they were up to no good. They'd come up with a grand scheme. So remember, it was Colonel Johnston who had been sent pictures of them back in 1908 from St. Louis. Right after they robbed the guy in the hotel, he just immediately arrested them and sent them packing. Well, the same Colonel Johnston, in October of 1910, received some complaints that a man and a woman living near Fifth and Center Streets had swindled a number of St. Louis women. The woman involved claimed she was going to open a beauty and massage parlor in the Securities Building, which was being built. The women who answered the ads were told to pay between $25 and $100, and in 30 days they would be taught the beauty business, and then they would be hired on as her assistants at $125 per month. So they got 12 women to sign up and then they disappeared. Olivia, do you want to do the math real quick? Like just Google it. How much would $125 per month be from 1910 dollars to 2025 dollars? Because I'm pretty sure that's quite a big amount of money. It would be $4, 207. 88. So if they all 12 gave her 100, it was $1, 200. That today would be $40, 395. 66. Oh, wow. So it was a pretty good racket then. It was. Wow. Yeah, that's that's not bad. That's not bad at all. So, yeah, 12 women signed up. So, I mean, they didn't spend that money, but, you know, they gave her between 25 and $100 in advance. So 12 women gave her that much money And then Nora and Vigo and Billy disappeared. So they made these complaints, and they were indicted in district court on November 3rd. But they were gone, so I mean the warrants couldn't be served. And the women were able to identify Nora and Vigo from their photographs that were in the Robust Gallery. So Colonel Johnston, he was really, really mad, and he was not going to forget this. Oh, yeah. So that was November 3rd in St. Louis, Missouri. And then on November 27th, just 24 days later, a man going by V. Collins and his wife going by N. Collins were arrested in Tacoma, Washington, and taken to Portland. So, I mean, think how quickly they moved from Missouri over to Tacoma, Washington and got this next one all set up. So, I mean, so apparently they had been in Portland, so they were just were arrested in Tacoma, but they had gone to Portland. They had set up a rooming house and a beauty parlor slash school, I think, in the same building. So this was a multifaceted scheme. And like I said, it must have gone down very quickly unless they pulled this one off at the same time they were doing the St. Louis scheme. Like, I don't know how they would have done this so fast. In Portland, they had the rooming house and several boarders had moved in Now, these boarders were paying to have a place to stay, but they were also supposed to get breakfast as part of what they paid for. Well, they weren't getting more than pancakes. Where's my Starbucks? And this made them mad. Apparently, they also wanted, you know, a side of bacon, bacon and hash browns and orange juice. But they were just getting pancakes, and that was how dare they. You know, they paid for a little more than that, so they were like, we we want some of our money back, you know, if we're not going to get the side of of eggs. So Vigo could not give them money back because he didn't have any money to give them So they were mad about that. Now, additionally, this rooming house was also to double as a beauty school. And so they had to get supplies for this beauty school from Ford Bros Merchants. And it was about one hundred dollars' worth of items that they got. And they told the merchants, OK, we've got, you know, a thousand dollars coming from Denmark. It's going to be arriving any day now. So always a thousand. We'll take this now, and then, you know, we'll pay you as soon as he gets here. Well, you know, so they get all the stuff. But then wouldn't you know, Nora and Vigo and little Billy simply vanished. No, I bet you didn't see that coming No, you didn't see him going either, did you? John Cena, you can't see me. You can see them either. Well, they they were caught up in Tacoma and they were using those fake names, so V. Collins and N. Collins, which is so rude because, I mean, there's a dead man now. And it's true, he's a Dr. Collins. His name is so messed up, his good name. Yeah, well, he was kind of a jerk. Go back and listen to the episode if you haven't. But anyway, so now, you know, they had taken all of the merchandise from four bros with them, and Nora had even stolen some clothing worth $60 from one of her boarders, a woman named Nettie Johnson. Now, $60 doesn't sound like a whole lot. But if you convert $60 in 1910 dollars to 2025 dollars, that's over $2, 000 worth of clothes. So I can see why Nettie was a little bit upset. Same. Yeah. So now they were apparently caught at the Hotel Lansing in Tacoma, and after they were arrested, a woman in Tacoma, so up there in Tacoma, lodged a complaint that she had paid them $25 for some beauty lessons. And they had even promised a salary of $100 per month after she learned the business And it was also learned that while they were up there in Tacoma, they had purchased a whole bunch of silver on an installment plan, which I'm sure they probably weren't going to pay. And no, but they have $1, 000 coming. That's true. You know, any day now and within the hour, probably. And Vigo had a bunch of keys on him that were, quote, rudely filed and would have been used for picking locks. And in addition to the keys, he had an assortment of drills, files, and saws. So, I mean, Vigo was set up for burglarizing. Vigo, Nora, and Billy were taken to jail down in Portland, and Billy was just six years old at this time. As they entered the jail, Billy asked, what hotel are we staying in this time, mother? She told him that jails were hotels. They called one of her sisters that lived nearby, and she picked Billy up. So, I mean, that was good. He didn't have to stay there the whole time. I do know later on he did have to stay in the jail with them when he was seven. But yeah, anyway. So the following day, November 28th of 1910, Vigo and Nora were arraigned in a Portland courtroom on charges of larceny before Judge Taswell. They just had six cents to their name. They could not afford an attorney. Nora was like so unnerved by the whole ordeal. Apparently, she had not been like in a courtroom because before, you know, they'd been arrested and just kind of like let go. So being in court this time, she was not prepared and she fainted. So Vigo, you know, he caught her and they had to bring in the bottle of smelling salts, you know, to kind of like revive her. Now, listeners, listen up. Something very, very interesting happened in this court hearing. Deputy District Attorney Hennessey asked Vigo von Holsting-Rathlow point blank if he had a title, and Vigo hesitatingly said that he did not. Now, when I say title, I mean count. Okay, so he said that he was of noble blood, but he said that his father was Hofjagermeister in Denmark, which was a title that corresponds to that of count. But that Viggo said he himself was not a count, which is very, very intriguing, I think, because everyone's like, oh, he's a count. He's a count. I mean, he did represent himself as a count. Well, even the newspapers, when they first got married, she was like, call me countess. Yes, she did insist. She was like, don't forget to call me countess. Yeah, she was very clear on that. Oh, yeah. So very interesting. And so he hesitatingly answered, well, no, my dad is. Yeah, my dad is a Hofjagermeister in Denmark, and that corresponds to that of count, but I am not, not me. So I Google translated it. And can you guess what it means? What does it mean? Court huntsman. Yes, yes. He was because that's what his role was. He was just supposed to keep the royal dogs. Yeah, so, but he's saying it's like a count. His dad wasn't even a count. No, no. His job was literally just to take care of the dogs. Yes, he took care of the emperor's dogs. He threw them their scraps of meat and cleaned up their poop. He cleaned up the dog poop. Yeah. Anyway, sit on that little nugget for a minute. So they're sitting in jail for a while. And there's another court date on December 6th of 1910. A second charge is read against Nora. So that first charge read on the 28th. That was for the larceny of stealing Nettie's clothes. And then this one on December 6th. This is when the charges against both of them for stealing from Ford Bros was read. So Judge Cleland was presiding over this hearing. Then on December 9th, three days later, they enter their pleas of not guilty, and trial is set for February. But then a new judge comes to town. On January 11th, 1911, Nora and Vigo change their pleas to guilty, and Judge McGinn, a new judge, sentences them both to probation. Now he tells them that if they break the terms of their probation, they will have to spend a year in the Oregon State Penitentiary, so it's essentially like a suspended sentence But boy, are the Rathlos grateful to be free. Four days later, Vigo writes a letter to the newspaper, so it's published like letter to the editor published in the paper. And he's praising Judge McGinn for his approach on crime. Vigo is pouring on the praise. Quote, a new era had its beginning here in Portland when Judge McGinn took his seat in the circuit court. That's how he began the letter. Quote, go thy way and sin no more were the words spoken by Christ 2, 000 years ago to a fallen woman. And in 2, 000 years, men have forgotten that it is better to forgive in order to reform than to sentence and punish. That's what he said He was likening Judge McGinn to Christ. It's a long letter, and the best part is when he says, let us all join in and do our share, however little, in upholding Judge McGinn in the pursuit of his new policy of paroling prisoners who are worthy of being paroled because one would assume by that statement that Vigo was saying he and Nora were worthy of being paroled. All right, so now they just, you know, just barely got out of a prison sentence. Okay, they're like, whew, that was close Because they were doing some bad stuff, you know, but man, they are so lucky, so lucky that Judge McGinn is the one who, you know, was sitting on their trial or yeah, took over. So the Rathlos tried to live a worthy sort of life after that. They were still in the headlines because now, I mean, as far as anybody knew, there were true nobles living among the commoners of Portland, right? They hadn't really caught on that he had just admitted in court that he was an account. Now on February 8th of 1911, there was another revelation made. Strap in, listeners, strap in here. It comes the Countess Countess Nora von Holstein-Rathlow said, quote, the Crown Prince Rudolph was supposed to have been shot but instead, he fled from the country to escape a scandal. He was married secretly in Austria to my mother, who is dead, and the prince is now practicing medicine in America under the name Hoffman. My husband and I have saved all the money we could, and we have got trace of him. I intend at once to battle for my rights and to establish my title to the proud name I bear and to the estate and fortune of my family in Austria. All six cents, all six of them, yes. Oh man, yeah. So she is saying that Rudolph, you remember the story we started out with, listeners? Yes, yes. Prince Rudolph, prince Rudolph, who is very dead, um, is not dead according to her; he is in fact her father And is living in hiding in the United States. Um, he's a doctor, uh, secretly Dr. Hoffman. Um, and, and she therefore is a princess, right? I mean, essentially. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Oh, Austria. That's what she's saying. So that's she just revealed who she is, her identity on February 8th, 1911. And does that spread like wildfire now? In another article around the same time, Vigo says several times he has been traced and identified when he would suddenly drop out of sight. When I get my money, we're going to fight for my wife's rights. Her mother's brother lives in Hamburg and he will probably help us Well, they were behaving themselves during this time, like they were living, you know, modestly following the rules so they don't go to prison. They were living in a crude shack, and Vigo was actually making a little bit of income by sharpening knives. That was, he had practice with those keys. Yeah, he'd filed them down, so yeah, that was his job. He was a knife sharpener, but yeah, that didn't last long. So remember that the judge let them off easy, January of 1911 And then at some point, they went to Denmark because on December 13th of 1911, so at the end of that year, they were on their way back to the United States on the S. S. President Lincoln with a 20-year-old Danish boy named Paul Nielsen. Now they met him on the ship and they hired him. They said they were wealthy nobles and they would pay him $40 per month, and they would pay all of his expenses. On top of that, he was supposed to go with them to California to pick fruit for them for an additional $3 per day. So they traveled west from New York, but when they got to Ogden, Utah, the Rathlos completely abandoned him with just 25 cents, and they stole his stuff. So he had to pawn a $20 coat for a $1. 50 just to buy a ticket to make his way to Salt Lake City, where he was able to get in contact with the Danish Vice Consul Thorvald Orlob and, you know, to seek help because it was the only other Danish person he could find. So this poor Danish boy, he stranded in a strange land with nothing. Well, of course they had no idea where the Rathlos had gone, so they couldn't really do anything, but they didn't have to wait for long because soon the Rathlos were in the headlines again. I want to remind everyone that Billy is with them this entire time. Yes, they're young boy. So yeah, that was December of 1911 that they were on the ship, you know, with, with Paul Nielsen and by February 4th of 1912. So just like a few weeks later, right, six weeks or so. The Rathlos were charged with larceny and put in jail in Colorado Springs, Colorado. So yeah, six weeks in the States and they're back in jail again. So they'd actually been arrested in Utah, but the crime had taken place in Colorado. So I mean, man, they work fast, but I guess if you have no money and you need money right away, I mean, you're going to just get right to it. So all the articles go on and on about, you know, how the couple, how they're related to Austrian royalty and, you know, like, oh, the, you know, this couple in jail are related to Austrian royalty and, you know, blah, blah, blah. Now an article in the New York Sun reads, the wife of the baron, who is young and good looking, gave practical lessons to women in the secret of her beauty at $75 a series. The series did not extend beyond the first lecture. The baron and his wife, together with their lotions, disappeared after the first appearance, and the pupils have been searching for them for two weeks. He's a baron now. Yeah, I mean, you know, it keeps changing. Now remember how upset the colonel was in Des Moines, Iowa? He had that warrant, you know, and those darn Rathlos had gotten away. Well, now he sees that they are in jail in Colorado, and he wants them bad. So he contacts Colorado and asks if he can come and get them. Now, on February 22nd of 1912, Sheriff Ben Ness actually left Des Moines, Iowa, to travel to Colorado Springs in hopes of taking the Rathlos out of jail to take them to Iowa. But he was not successful. They couldn't make it work because the courts, you know, are moving slowly in Colorado. They couldn't just, you know, extradite them to Iowa. Colorado, you know, wanted their piece of them first too, you know, so they can't just take them, you know, shuffle them around all willy-nilly. Now, a funny thing happened around this time. A few days before Sheriff Ness went to Colorado, a newspaper article was published in the Colorado is Farm Girl. For a year now, all of the papers had been printing this story that Nora Holstein Rathlo was the daughter of the lost crown prince of Austria, that he had actually survived the shooting and was living and hiding in the States, and she was his daughter. Well, a farmer who knew her parents wrote to the newspaper and completely blew her story out of the water. He didn't want his name published, but he told them all about her childhood and her dad and her siblings and that her palatial residence that she spoke of was actually a wooden shack on the prairies near Avon, Iowa, not a castle in Austria like she claimed. I am praying that it was her dad that sent that in. Oh, that would be so funny. The informant is actually her father. Yeah, it did just keep referring to him as the informant. But yeah, that's funny. Now, additionally, remember poor young Paul Nielsen, who was on the ship with the Rathlos and they abandoned him in Ogden, Utah? Well, now he and the Danish vice consul knew exactly where the Rathlos were located, the Colorado Springs jail. So the consul was able to send a letter to the mayor to ask for assistance in retrieving Paul's things. And the letter from the vice consul was also published in the paper. At some point, Paul had been able to write to her in the jail to write to Nora and say, I need to get my things back. Are you going to send me my things? And so she had written back to Paul and she was being like sickeningly sweet, like, oh dear, next time I see you, I'll be very kind to you. I promise. And she kept saying things like, you know, you have our money, you give us our money and we'll send you your things. And she was claiming that her stepfather, who she was saying was her actual father, but that her mom had married this man after her father, who was the prince, left or whatever. So her stepfather had given her a thousand dollars and then this boy, Paul, stole it and ran away. And let's all remember, she did claim that her mother was dead before this. Yeah, so anyway, but yeah, so she was saying that Paul stole a thousand dollars of theirs. So if he would just give that back, then she would give him his things. But yeah, so when they published the letters from the vice consul, they also published those letters that she had sent back to Paul, saying essentially, like, yeah, I have your things But, you know, she also said one like, well, if you've decided that you don't want to pick fruit for us after all, just let me know and I can send your things back to you. But they probably still didn't even have his stuff. They probably sold it or pawned it or whatever. Yeah, poor boy. But anyway, yeah, so she'd been outed for for the lady she was, that she's not a countess and she's not a princess and certainly not a nice person, honestly, at all. She's an actress. Yeah, she is. So on April 8th of 1912, and I do not understand this. I don't know why I don't know why this happened. Some, quote, wealthy society women raised one thousand dollars to pay Norah's and Vigo's bond so they could get out of jail in Colorado. That is like thirty-five thousand dollars today. They raised that much money to get them out of jail on bond because the trial was set for February 6th of 1913. So they were going to be sitting in jail for like a year waiting for their trial. And so these wealthy society women, I don't know why, but they just paid thirty-five thousand dollars essentially to get them out. And might not have seen the news. Yeah, I don't understand why they did it. Maybe they wanted her to be able to be with Billy; like that's the only thing I can think. I mean, because Billy was in there with them initially, but I'm sure they probably after a while got one of her siblings like to take him. You know, I mean, it was, it probably just took a while to get one of them to Colorado. But I don't know, maybe that's why they just wanted her to be able to be with Billy. That's the only thing I can think of. But then they got a job. We know they got a job at a ranch nearby. And yeah, now it's crazy. We tried, we tried to find the trial, so we searched and searched to find the trial for in Colorado in February of 1913. I found an article on January 27th of 1913 that said that the trial was still set for February 6th of 1913. So that means it was still scheduled. It was not dismissed at least up until January 27th of 1913. But there's no news about a trial. There's no news about a dismissal or a sentencing or a plea. Nothing. There's literally no other news in regard to the case in Colorado Springs, so I don't know the outcome. However, there is an article in the Des Moines Tribune on April 4th of 1913 that says that the last Colonel Johnston heard of the case was in November of 1912 and that he had received a letter from the Colorado Springs police saying that they were apparently unable to do anything and that nothing had been heard of the Rathlos since. So this makes me think that the Rathlos most likely disappeared. I mean, they were out on bond I think they just took off. And since they couldn't find them, they couldn't do anything further with the case. Like nothing further happened because, you know, the defendants were gone. That's what I think. They walked off that ranch. Those wealthy society women, they really should not have paid that bond. Yeah, I mean, they were a little too trusting. But, yeah, it just sounds like the Rathlos, they were determined to never face the music. You know, and they got away with it, always like that trial dates come and it's time to move on. Let's go. Guinness begin again. Yeah. So the next time that we hear from them, when you do the searches, the next time you hear anything about them is 1915. So three years later, we know that they went to Denmark on the steamer Oscar II of the Henry Ford Peace Expedition. And while on their way to Denmark on that ship, they somehow charmed some wealthy folks who offered to give them enough money or something to pay them, like pay their way back to the U. S. later. On February 12th, the Brooklyn Eagle newspaper printed a story with the title, Danish nobleman to get a job here, and the byline reads, Father cast him off when he married a young American widow. The article goes on to say that because of the Ford Peace Expedition, there will be a letter presented at the Ford plant in Long Island City saying that Vigo Holstein Rathlo should be given a job. It also says that after eight trips to Denmark in as many years, Viggo's father still would not approve of their marriage. So eight times they went back, please, Dad, can we be married now? I mean, they were married already, but he was like, no, please, Papa, like, nope, get off my lawn. You can't work with the dogs. You can sleep with the dogs, but you're not coming in. You can't hunt with us. And then on February 13th of 1916, they arrived at Ellis Island to come back to the U. S. So like the day after this article is published, like, oh, he's coming here to get a job. It's going to work out. The next day they arrive at Ellis Island, but they're stopped. U. S. immigration officers had their names on a list apparently, and they denied them entry to the United States and labeled them as, quote, persons likely to become a public charge and as persons who have been convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude, moral turpitude. Yep. So you guys are not allowed in our club. Access denied. You shall not pass. So they had, you know, little Billy with them, who by this time was 12. And Billy was put in the care of just some random people like foster care type situation. And the count and the countess were put in jail to await deportation. So Vigo made a statement to the paper saying that all of this was the fault of Nora's American family members. He said they were keeping her out so that she couldn't get a large sum of money that she was entitled to. So it's their fault. On March 6th of 1916, the trio were deported back to Denmark, but they weren't giving up yet. Do they ever? No. In the fall of 1919, they made their way to Canada, where one of Vigo's brothers was living, and they snuck through one of Canada's borders into the United States They made their way to Spokane, Washington, where they settled and quietly lived for about 15 months before they were caught by U. S. immigration officers on January 12th of 1921. So it was considered one of the largest immigration catches in the Northwest in its day. On January 13th, Vigo made a statement and said that he would not fight the deportation proceedings because he and Nora didn't care to stay where they were not wanted. He said their only worry was how they would get Billy back to Denmark with them because they had no money. They couldn't afford to pay for his transportation. He didn't deny any of his previous crimes and said that he had been young. He had no money. He had no skills, you know, and he was sorry for the way he behaved before his deportation in 1915, but that he had lived a straight life, you know, since he'd come back in 1919, and he was a hard worker. Now, the man who arrested him, Officer B. E. Gowen, said, I do not believe that the count and his wife are as hardworking as they claim to be. When I made the arrests yesterday morning at 11 o'clock, he was the only one of the family out of bed. He's like, they're lazy. Now, Nora also gave a long interview with a newspaper reporter. She was like sobbing the whole time. She cried about how hard life had been since they were royalty. She said that living in luxury with wealthy parents in Denmark had made their lives so difficult because her husband had never been forced to work, and this made him, you know, unadapted for putting into practical use the education that he possessed. And she said, oh, he has tried. My husband has never cheated as much as he has been cheated. We have done wrong, I admit, but nothing like we are said to have done. Our mistake was in running away more than in anything we ever committed. She went on to say that reporters would come up to them when they arrived in a town and would say, 'You better give me an interview or I'll make up some crazy scandal and put it in the paper.' And then she'd be forced to leave town. Do we believe that, Olivia? No, no. Nora also said that they kept coming back to the US because she couldn't live without her sisters. And I mean, I kind of believe that. But I also think that his family was like, 'Get out, get out of here. We don't want you here. The dogs don't even like you. You know, I don't know. They think you smell like America. You're more of a fox than a hound. And by this time, 1921, she said that his father, you know, Vigo's father had died and had left $3 million, but because of the depreciation of the Danish money and how it costs so much to have it exchanged, they had hardly any money left. So I mean, that seems like, I mean, from 3 million down to zero, like, I don't, I don't know. I don't see how that, that doesn't equate. I don't know. And the brother in Canada was supposed to send money, but he didn't, she said. So Vigo, she also said, doesn't have much business sense. I do believe this. So anytime he did get money, someone would just take it away from him right away. Of course. They'd just luck it out. I mean, I do believe that part. I think that part was true, that he didn't have a lot of sense with money. Now, Nora went on to say that the reason that they were arrested in 1921. So while she was giving this, this interview was because a relative of Dr. Collins, her ex-husband who had died back in 1909, a relative of his was worried that Nora was going to go after his estate and therefore they wanted her deported. So she couldn't get anything of his. Now, if you listened to the previous episode, then, you know, Dr. Collins had no money and he was married to a second wife only because he kind of needed her money. And we now know it was because he had to pay off Nora's debts. So no, I don't think there was any estate to go after. So yeah. I mean, if anything, Billy would be the one who would get it. Yeah. Well, I mean, she did say they thought I was going to go after it on behalf of Billy. But I mean, I don't think there was an estate to go after. No, I don't think that's why they were arrested. Really, I think she's just making stuff up. She's just they always have an excuse. Now, a few days after Nora's tearful interview, young Billy gave an interview of his own, and he said that his adoptive father, Vigo, never claimed to be a count and that this was just what the newspapers called him. So Billy was 16 at this time And Billy explained, and this is just, I don't know, I think it's cute, quote, my father has but five points in his crown while it takes seven to be recognized as a count. I am sure that he never claimed to be a count. Newspapers everywhere just gave him that title because he claimed to be of Danish nobility. So, good point. And now, you know, this is funny because we do know for sure that back in 1908 in the first interview Nora gave, you know, the first one she gave after marrying the count, she actually did insist to the newspaper reporter that they refer to her as countess. Like we've seen that, be sure to call me countess. Yeah. And so it was like, so for the purposes of this article, we will call her Countess. My goodness. Now, Monday, April 4th, 1921, the Rathlos left the United States and set sail for Denmark for the last time. Nora was 38 and Viggo was 36. Now, you'd think the stories would end, the jig would be up, right? They'd finally just stop with the nonsense, just give up the malarkey. You know what I mean? Just or if we could read Danish, they probably didn't. Oh, I know. I wish we could read all of those newspapers. But I did find one more article from 1946 when Nora was 61 years old. In this article, when I saw this, I was like, oh my gosh, Olivia, look at this. In this article, she was telling the newspaper in Denmark. And I mean, thank goodness they put this one in English, right? This story just, oh my gosh, the events are a little bit twisted. So if you have been following along and you are familiar with these details, your eyebrows are going to be raised. Okay, listen to this. Nora tells the newspaper in Denmark that Dr. Collins died in the year 1919, so 10 years later than he did. She said that her husband, Dr. Collins, had worked at a university in Des Moines, Iowa, and was an assistant to a Dr. Hoffman. Dr. Hoffman, she said, resigned from the university when rumors swirled that he was the Austrian Crown Prince Rudolf, who had supposedly died at Meierling, as recorded in the Austrian archives. Crown Prince Rudolf was the only son of Emperor Francis Josef. According to Nora, Dr. Hoffman bore a remarkable resemblance to the royal heir and spoke with a German accent. Since he disappeared from Des Moines, nobody knows where he is, but he may be somewhere in Texas. She said that when the Austrian emperor was informed... that Dr. Hoffman was possibly his son, Dr. Collins then received several photos from Vienna of the prince for identification purposes. But Dr. Hoffman had always refused to be photographed So Nora was quoted as saying, quote, 'My former husband certainly knew something, but he never gave any information.' Now, remember, we started out with the story of the Crown Prince Rudolf, and he is very dead of a very real gunshot wound to the head. There is a picture of his body on Wikipedia. They had to use wax to recreate a portion of his skull for the viewing of his body, and even then, they had to wrap it in bandages to hide that part. He is dead. He is entombed next to his parents in Vienna. According to Nora, the prince married her young children, married him real quick in Austria to have her eighth, which was her in Avon, Iowa. And then she died and left her with the father of her first seven. Like it makes no sense. How did she explain her siblings, these sisters she couldn't live without? How does, how did she explain this? It's like, did she think that people weren't going to remember the other stories? I don't know. She's, oh, my gosh, yeah. And also, in case you haven't heard the previous episode, when she went back to Denmark, she actually had the family in Denmark convinced that she really was the daughter of the Crown Prince Rudolf and their descendants actually believed that story until the year 2012, when they discovered the truth through these old newspaper articles and family history research sites, much like Olivia and I did. And now, as all of you have through us. So, yeah, I mean, I saw the thread on the genealogy website where someone broke the news to one of their descendants that no, she was not actually the daughter of the Crown Prince of Austria. And it was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy, like my life is a lie. Yeah, it was 2012. They believed it until 2012. Just wow. Wow. Now, let's talk a little bit more about Count Vigo. Let's let's blow his story on January 17th, 1921. OK, so this is when they were waiting for being deported, right there. A man named A. V. Knut, who lived in Spokane, Washington, and was from Denmark, saw the headlines about Count Vigo von Holstein-Rathloe, and he thought something smelled rather lutefisky, right? Fishy, you know, lutefisky. OK, I was going to ask. You're like, what? Yeah, lutefisky. You're Norwegian. Come on. I've done Duolingo, but I'm not at the suspicious words yet. Lutefisky. All right. So he said, 'Vigo von Holstein-Rathloe is no more a count than that plant in the window.'What are you laughing at, me or at the quote? At the accent. Hey, my grandfather was Norwegian and he did not speak English till he was eight. So I'm just channeling my inner gramps. You shush. So he went on to explain, I'm not going to do it all, but he went on to explain that Holstein-Rathloe has no right to use the title of count. He does belong to a family of nobility in Denmark, but this family has no inheritable title, such as baron or count. His family owned an estate, Rathlasdal or something in Denmark. This was entailed property. What in Denmark is called Arvgads. It is inheritable from father to older son. His father died several years ago and left an estate quite heavily encumbered with debts, which is funny because she said he left $3 million. No, it was quite heavily encumbered with debts. There is no question about his father and the whole family belonging to the nobility, but they do not belong to the inheritable title nobility. His father was given by the King of Denmark the title of Hofjagermeister, with a uniform so that he could appear in court assemblies. The nobility to which Holstein-Rathlo belongs came down from the German House of Holstein, the class called Junkers, which is spelled Junkers by the way, Junkers. They migrated to Denmark several hundred years ago and rendered services to the Danish government in power at the time. So neither of them were a count, or a countess, or a princess, or anything. They both had problems with honesty and really poorly developed morals and terrible money management skills, and their parenting was awful. So, in your professional opinion, was Nora just an actress or a pathological liar? Well, I would say she was a pathological liar. And another term for pathological lying is pseudologia fantastica, which I think sounds like a fun word, but it is a chronic behavior characterized by excessive and often compulsive lying So it's not a diagnosis in and of itself, but it's more like a characteristic that's associated with other disorders or causes. And I think Nora certainly had a personality disorder, for sure. And I would say for sure a low self-esteem because she had to make stuff up about herself all the time. And then, of course, we saw just how unstable she was in her relationship with Dr. Collins, for sure. But then also, like, she didn't attach properly to Dr. Collins or even to Billy. And then I don't even know, like, we don't really know the dynamic between her and the count, I want to call him, her and Vigo. You know, like, as far as on a personal level, we just know that they committed crimes together, but we don't know how they actually, like, interacted with each other. Yeah. Well, we know they were lazy. We do know that. We do know that. Didn't have a lot of motivation to actually better themselves. Like, yeah, I don't know. There's so much wrong with them. And they wouldn't take personal responsibility for anything, like, yeah, I don't know. But yeah, just the fact that she kept up the lie, even when she was 61 years old, when they weren't even trying to come back to the States anymore, you know, I mean, it was just like, jeez, like, just, I don't know, it's crazy. The craziest thing, though, is she lived until 1971. So how old was she when she died? She was 88. And Vigo died in 1968. So, wow, he was up there too. Crazy, crazy. But yeah, can you imagine just meeting someone and being like, hey, how about I leave my husband and we just like embark on a cross-country crime spree together? You know, we have no money, but that's fine. We'll just go rob people for all they have. Like, I mean, I'll do the, I'll take 115 out of this guy's jacket while you come in waving a revolver and say, it'll be great. And he's just like, ha! I mean, I was thinking about this the other day How brave would he have to have been to just be like, I'm just going to leave my country with literally nothing and go across an ocean to a country where I don't know anyone and I'm just going to steal to survive? You know what I mean? I'm just going to make it like I wish we could read those newspapers, though, that like from Denmark. We need to make friends with a Dane. If you are Danish, this is your chance. Send us a text.

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forgottenfelonies at gmail. com. Yes, you can be our our official Danish translator. Oh, Nora. Oh, sweet, sweet Goldie Lang. Yeah, so that's why we said she was an actress until the day she died because she kept up the act. She did. Yes, she did well. Shout out to Ancestry. com, FamilySearch. com, Newspapers. com, Genealogy. com. Is that what you used? Find a grave-ish? Yeah, ish, ish, that was my last time. Send us some fan mail, follow our socials, Forgotten Felonies on Facebook and Forgotten underscore Felonies on Instagram. There's another, Jenny, it was G-E-N-I dot com. Jenny dot com. Yeah. Genealogy, but Jenny. Yeah. Is it Yosef? Mm. That might be in the fade-out conversation. You're just looking at, it's like German. Do Germans not say the J sound? I'm looking. How to pronounce in Austrian. I found a video. He says, Yosef, Yosef, with a Z sound. Yosef. Now, some other languages may say it as Yosef or Yusef as well. Yosef. Different pronunciation than my skull. Yosef. It probably requires the eyebrows too. Yosef. Yosef. Yosef. Like, I was like, in other languages, it's also Yosef or Yosef. Yosef. Okay. A handsome guy, I can't help myself if this is a straight face now. Okay. Okay. A handsome young prince was born. This tiny baby boy was, there's no way I can do this now. I'll turn off my camera. There's no way I can do this now. Oh, man. You're doing it. How did you say his name? Rudolph. Rudolph Franz Carl Yosef. How am I gonna get through this now? I'll just call him something. Rudolph. Yes, that's so cute. Oh, man. Oh, man. A tiny baby boy with a Rudolph frown. Let's call that baby a boy with a prince. Oh, man. Oh, man. Oh. Okay.